We won’t have another Adedibu in Ibadan

Akinjide: We won’t have another Adedibu in Ibadan 23/7/2008

Chief Richard Osuolale Abimbola Akinjide is easily remembered as the scourge of the progressive forces in the South-West in the First and Second Republics.As a Senior Advocate of Nigeria and former Attorney-General of the Federation, he examines the on-going attempts to review the Constitution and reform the electoral system. He submits that all efforts will fail unless there is a thorough re-orientation of the attitude of INEC officials. He spoke with Group Political Editor, BOLADE OMONIJO and OZIEGBE OKOEKI. There is a general concern about the electoral system and the entire political situation in the country, how do we restore integrity into the system? That is the word, to restore integrity, that is the heart of the problem. And you got it right. It is not the law, it is not the regulations that are at fault, it is the integrity of the people applying the law that is the problem. You probably know that there is nothing original in our electoral laws. When we were operating the parliamentary system, the electoral laws we operated was the British. And when we also went for the presidential system the electoral law we used were partly British and partly American. Those laws worked very well in America, in England and India. The critical question is, why is it that they don’t work in Nigeria. The answer is our character, attitude and our lack of respect for the rule of law. India is the greatest democracy in the world today and the population of India is 1.2 billion people. And India was a colony of Britain, after independence they left their colonial past behind them and they embraced democracy. But Nigeria, also a former British protectorate got independence and for the first five, six years of independence we were following British attitude and ethos. But after that we just went overboard and we now embarked on Nigerian attitude and ethos and things have never worked. I challenge anybody to tell me anything that is working in this country. It is not the electoral system alone that is not working, nothing works. And the problem is very, very deep, the causes are very deep. So, we should stop making a ridicule of ourselves, blaming the law, when there is a constitutional crisis they will say it is the constitution that is faulty, set up a committee. When the elections are rigged, they will say oh, it is the electoral law, set up a committee. In fact, I have lost count of the number of committees and bodies set up to review the constitution and the electoral laws. In fact Nigeria is now an object of ridicule all over the world. You probably know that when America got independence over 200 years ago from Britain on the battlefield, they fought for it, the population of America was then only three million people. And the population of America now is over 200 million people and the same constitution they used when they were three million people is the same constitution they are using now that they are over 200 million people although there are some amendments to it. But we got independence less than a century ago, less than 50 years. We have had five military coups successfully, army overthrowing army or civilian. And we have also had several constitutions, several electoral laws reviewed and rewritten. So my answer to the question is that there is nothing wrong with the law, there is nothing wrong with the constitution or the electoral law, there is a lot wrong with Nigerians, that is the heart of the problem. In view of your diagnosis, what can be done? How can a change of attitude be effected? What I have been trying to explain in another way is that there is already break down of law and order in Nigeria. And I will challenge anybody to a debate on that. And I will explain to you now what that means. There is said to be breakdown of law and order when one of two critical situations occur. Either one of them occurs or both of them occur. The first one is when the laws are ineffective, the machinery of law, the courts, police and the army are ineffective, and then there is a breakdown of law and order. Secondly, there is breakdown of law and order when the laws are being used for the purpose for which they were not meant. Now you might say, it is for you to choose. In either case, there is breakdown of law and order in Nigeria, laws are being used for the purpose which they are not meant. Does the electoral law say you should rig elections? Does it say the president, minister, chairman of corporation, legislators, should take bribe? It does not. So, whether you look at it from the first definition which I gave or the second one, the truth is that there is break down of law and order in Nigeria. I n Britain there is no written constitution but you have the Magna Carta and you have Acts of Parliament, then you have what they call the Convention. In fact if you study the British Constitution as some of us do, you find that the conventions are as powerful as the written laws. If you are a prime minister or minister and you breach the convention you must resign immediately. You won’t see that in any statutes or regulation. And that is why the constitution of Britain, unwritten, works very well. In America, its been there for over 200 years, made for three million people and is now working for about 240 million people and is still working very well. They made only some amendments. Why, because of their attitude, the ethos and because the people are determined to uphold the rule of law. In the last election many of them were bad, many of them were good. Those that were bad, is it the law that make you to be bad, is it the law that says you should falsify result. So, the fundamental thing is in us. The fault is not in our laws it is in ourselves. Even when we say it is in ourselves, then the fundamental question to ask is how do we go about effecting a change? That change is very difficult to bring about and you have raised a very critical question. And I will tell you why the change will be difficult. The British deliberately created something for us for the benefit of their own economic interest and not for the benefit of Nigeria. Having said that, you can blame the British for creating it but I won’t go further than that. I will blame ourselves for not changing it. Whatever was created for India, Burma and USA by the British, they changed them and now use them in a way that are beneficial to their own people and to the rule of law. But we have refused to change the system. What did the British do or fail to do for us. There were three critical people that really created Nigeria. Some people make mistakes, they talk of Azikiwe, Sardauna and Awolowo as being the three critical elements who created Nigeria. That is not true. They were the people who got independence for us, they are not the people who created Nigeria. The three people who created Nigeria were (1) Lord Harcourt, who was the colonial secretary, (2) Lord Cathwright who was the chairman of the Royal Niger Company and (3) Lord Lugard. Those were the three people who created Nigeria. And when they created Nigeria, they created it in a way that it would be of benefit to the British economic interest. You can’t blame them for that, I am not blaming them for that. If I were in their shoes I would do exactly what they did. And before amalgamation of 1914, Royal Niger Company had been ruling the North for 14 years as a chartered company or what we call privatised colonialism. It was not the British government that was ruling the North at that time it was the Royal Niger Company. In fact it was they who built the railway because there was mineral in Jos. There was a lot of hides and skin and cotton in Kano and many parts of the North. So they built this network of railways to evacuate these produce to Port Harcourt and to Lagos. And at that time Southern Nigeria was different and they were paying custom duties to the South. So when Lugard came in 1898, Royal Niger Company said "well, we are paying duties to the South, how can we stop that. The only thing we can do to stop that is to create amalgamation so that it would be one Nigeria, in which case you don’t pay any duty again to the South." That was the reason behind amalgamation of 1914. In other words, amalgamation was not created for the benefit of Nigeria or Nigerians but for the benefit of the Royal Niger Company and their shareholders and of course they pay tax to the British. That is the heart of the thing. So, as soon as they effected the amalgamation of 1914, the first thing Britain did was to enact the Mineral Ordinance of 1914 which rested all the minerals in Nigeria in the British crown, the oil and gas, coal, iron everything in the British crown. And the same 1914 they enacted the Arbitration Ordinance so that if there is any dispute among the various competing companies they can go to arbitration. It is interesting that you are mentioning these names, but some people say we had an opportunity in Obasanjo who came back, what did he make of it? That is another tragedy altogether. He is a lucky man who really lost a very good chance. If you look at history, you cannot run after wealth and also look for greatness particularly when you want to get that wealth from the treasury. It is not possible, the two don’t just go together. If you look at all the names I mentioned you find that none of them had any private wealth but they dedicated themselves to the greatness of their people and their country. Look at Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore, within a generation he moved Singapore from the third world to the first world. These are people who took not one dollar from the treasury, who own no stocks and shares, Ghandi, Nehru, the rulers of Malaysia, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln. I mean Mandela is the greatest human being living today. You cannot look for wealth and look for greatness at the same time. You have to elect, you either have your wealth or forget about looking for wealth and look for greatness or you forget wealth and then you dedicate your life to the greatness of your people just like Mandela. Mandela was a lawyer and he is still a lawyer, Nero, Ghandi were all lawyers. They became very great and sacrificed their lives, freedom, everything for their people. But not so in Nigeria, the moment they come to power it is treasury looting, it is private and family poverty alleviation. You cannot achieve greatness for yourself or for your country by doing that. Your name will be in mud if you seek wealth and greatness all from the country and from the treasury. So that was the problem we had with Obasanjo? That is what many people think. But we had a Balewa who was simple and considered frugal, wealth did not mean anything to him... B alewa is one of the greatest rulers that this country has ever produced. I was in his cabinet. The present president’s father was also there as Minister for Lagos Affairs. Yar’Adua created South-West Ikoyi; Victoria Island, he had no single plot in these places. Now look at the rulers of recent times the number of land or plots they or their company have in Abuja or any other state. It is obscene desire for family poverty alleviation that is destroying the country. You either choose greatness of your country or greatness through treasury looting for the wealth of your family. That is one of the problems of Nigeria of today. Back to the issue of sanctity and integrity in the electoral system, after more than a year, election cases are still pending at the tribunasl which was not the case in the Second Republic, what went wrong and what can be done? W ell, I must confess to you that you raised a very important point and I am really baffled. When I was in the system, we finished all election petition before people are sworn-in. You remember I handled Shagari’s case the two times and we made sure we finished with election petitions before people were sworn-in. And also in the United States, Bush versus Gore, you know the problem of Florida, and the matter went to the Supreme Court three times and yet the election petition was finished before Bush was sworn-in. So you asked a very critical question and the answer should come from those who are in the system. I am not part of the system. But what I can tell you is that there is nothing preventing them from following what we were doing in Shagari’s time and what the Americans are doing today. The fault is not in our stars but in ourselves. I am not the author of that saying I am quoting somebody. Even at the level of Appeal, the Supreme Court up till now has still not sat to consider the appeal on the presidential election? I don’t want to comment on that because I don’t know the details. It may well be that there are good reasons why those things are like that, but I don’t know. What about the cost of litigation, because when the matter drags on like this it frightens people who don’t have the financial resources? Well, the cost of litigation in Nigeria is one of the cheapest, I must make that very clear. Don’t confuse the fees of lawyers with the court fees. The court fees are among the cheapest anywhere in the world. But when it comes to litigation, we cannot control the fees you will pay your counsel. That is a private contract between you and your lawyer. It is however, an abuse of the system when election petitions drag on for too long and I agree that something should be done about it. There has been this complaint of contradictions in the ruling by the different tribunals and the Appeal Courts in the election cases, what is your comment and what determines substantial compliance with the electoral law? I will not comment on that unless I can see some of these judgements especially those so criticised, because the way a layman will look at the court judgement is quite different from the way a lawyer will look at it. I will be too happy to make comments if I have copies of the judgement. But lawyers have been saying that the judgement from different Courts of Appeal in different divisions in similar cases have tended to be contradictory when it ought to be uniform? Again, unless I see the judgements I cannot make any valid comments and I have not seen the judgement. Now that President Yar’Adua is in power, what do you advise him to treat as priority as a way of putting things right in Nigeria? The first thing to do is to ask ourselves why things are as they are. It is the answer to that question that will be the signpost to where we should go. The answer to me is quite simple. Nigeria is a country not a nation. Unless we have a nation we will not solve our problems. The Yoruba man sees himself as Yoruba, the Igbo says we want Igbo president, the Northerner will say it is the turn of the North; the Delta will say we are Deltans we have the oil. So you have a country and not a nation, and anywhere in the world where you have that situation you will have neither peace nor progress. United States of America is able to be what they are now because America is a nation not just a country. When Clinton was president his running mate was from the same part of the country, that is because the US is a nation. Look at it today, Obama, a black person, a minority of the minorities being presidential candidate and is still leading in the public opinion against the white who are in the majority and who is picked by the Republican. That is possible because the US is a nation not a country. But here when Ohanaeze want to advocate for presidency they will say they want Ibo president, now a Northerner becomes a president they say this is the turn of the North, the Yoruba man becomes president we say oh the thing was given to the Yorubas. As long as that attitude persists you will not have either unity or progress. That is the heart of our problem. I summarise by telling you again, we have a country, we haven’t got a nation. We will not make any progress until we have a nation. You are a member of the PDP that has been in power for nine years and people believe these problems persist because PDP has not been able to put its acts together, how do you react to this? T hey are partly right and they are partly wrong. Partly right because the eight years of Obasanjo’s regime as has been disclosed now has done more evil than good. And partly wrong because the problem of eight years cannot be solved in one year. It seems to me that Yar’Adua would turn out to be a very good president if what his father did and what Balewa did are anything to go by. My belief is that before you make any valid judgement on Yar’Adua let’s wait for another two or three years and then we would be able to make a fair judgement. Now you don’t expect him within the last 12 months to have solved the power, railway, airways, shipping problems. I mean look at the revelations that are coming out in the various proceedings going on in the National Assembly. Is it the fault of the law that contracts are over inflated by as much as 600 per cent? There is enough in Nigeria for everybody’s need but there is not enough for everybody’s greed, that is the heart of our problem. You are an elderstatesman, you were a member of the PDP Board of Trustees and people believe at a time you were close enough to Obasanjo to be able to tell him the truth, what actually went wrong under Obasanjo? You only tell him the truth if you know what was going on. I challenge even some cabinet ministers at that time that they knew what was going on. Do you know that Obasanjo was the minister of oil and gas for eight years and do you know for those eight years no oil and gas matter went to the cabinet. He would call the Managing Director of NNPC whom he appointed, he would call his Special Adviser on Petroleum whom he appointed and he sat down with his two appointees and took decisions. And oil and gas represents 95 per cent of our revenue in terms of foreign currency. So, how do you expect things to be right or for there not to be corruption under those circumstances, when something where you get 95 per cent of the revenue never go to any cabinet, it was decided by only one man? And for those eight years Obasanjo was the Minister for Petroleum. Later on because of OPEC representation he appointed a minister of state under him. Many people confuse that minister of state with being minister, Obasanjo remained minister throughout. And whenever the law says the minister should sign Obasanjo was signing. So that is the heart of the matter, absolute power corrupts absolutely. But the National Assembly is supposed to have oversight function, were they sleeping? A h! Ah!! During Shagari’s four years, we didn’t have majority either in the Senate or House of Representatives. But throughout those four years I was the Attorney-General, there was no measure we sent to the National Assembly that was not passed and yet we had no majority in the National Assembly. During Obasanjo’s eight years, he had more than two-third majority in the National Assembly both Senate and House of Representatives, yet a lot of bills were never passed. So, you draw your own conclusion. You said Yar’Adua should be given time, but people say there is even no road-map of where he is taking the country to one year after? My answer is this, when you have a patient, you don’t start giving him medicine straightaway. The first thing is to do the diagnosis, you find out what is wrong. If a patient has temperature, the cause maybe small pox, malaria, diarrhoea, now if you give him or her a medicine for temperature, the real malady will not go. But if it is small pox through diagnosis, you treat for small pox. Not only will the temperature go, the small pox will go. Same thing with any other thing. The enormity of the problems Yar’Adua met are so much and so great that unless you do thorough diagnosis you might compound the problem and make it worse. I think that it what is going on. So from your vantage position you can say that Nigerians have no cause to worry? I agree with you. Ibadan politics, where are we now? We are on the right track. The Oyedokun committee is doing excellently well in reconciling and there has been embargo on publicity. They have met me and my group twice and we had very useful discussion and I cannot tell you what we discussed and what we didn’t discuss. But what I can tell you is that all will be well. The PDP will continue to control Oyo State and we all support the governor and the government that is there. And we will come out stronger and in unity. Is there a possibility of having another Adedibu? Impossible. I can tell you categorically that what is going to evolve is a democratic norm. You cannot have another Adedibu unless you have another Obasanjo, another Bode George at the centre. And the chances of having another Obasanjo and George at the centre are totally out of the question and very remote. Yar’Adua is a democrat who believes in the rule of law and all will be well